China unveils weapon developments

[Rubber Duck]

In my experience the Democracy Issue is often very contorted.

I actually believe that Democracy is the best option, but it has to be said that in terms of the opinions of individual really being taken into account when government policy is implemented the advantage of democratic government is often very marginal.

In the UK we have the crimes in of the past rewarded by constitutional power, whilst in the US the only thing that talks which is seriously listened to seems to be the Almighty Buck. I guess when the Yuan is king, they will just do whatever Beijing asks anyway.

[Rubber Duck]

Some of the statements talked about earlier seem to square up short when the Pentagon is squeezed for Internet Bandwidth:

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7007354942

[bramiozo]

Originally Posted by mulligan

Of course they are guilty … ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc are a result of the West drawing borders decades ago .. How come Indians were able to live in relative harmony until the Brits decided to divide the country into India and Pakistan .. You think the bloodbath that ensued was because of so called western democracy?
And have you forgotten that it is American weapons beign use in Afghanistan to send their sons and daughters home in boxes?

Responsibility is something different then guilt, actually, I wrote "responsibility" at first but replaced it by "guilt" because the west is as you point out partly responsible for the present situation, that is an undeniable fact of history.

Responsibility is not always punishable or redeemable, I do not have the responsibility to restore what my ancestors broke down because those who were responsible and culpable are not amongst the living. Simply treating others right now as their ancestors should have been treated is all that can be assumed as the norm for intercultural relations.

Let them take revenge by living well.

To no end, but if you oppress people and force them to live according to your rules they will get pissed and at some point they will seek revenge … A few generations is not a long time and if you think people will just forget and forgive then you are mistaken.

The whole of Europe was drenched in war for over 10 years in 1 generation, millions of civilians were slaughtered, raped, wounded, yet no noteworthy act of aggression has taken place towards the initiators outside the realms of war, peace was agreed upon and those countries grew out to be one the strongest alliances in the world. Compare this to continuous tension in Asia over past struggles....

These people are seeking excuses for their own pitiful behavior whilst they should be looking for the solutions to their problems.

I demand from any person what he demands from me and I will give him hell if he enforces his will upon me. I expect nothing less from others but it is only applicable to the present.

If revenge is a leading motive even when the act will only repeat the history they so despise then they deserve the shitstorm that's coming if this animosity towards the west is turned into policy.

Bali was an exercise of muslim extremism, exercised by extremists who seek political control over Indonesia through spreading fear, it's not the first place where that has happened.

The peace? What peace? The west are the most war hungry people on earth
The East is at least as capable of advances in science and technology

UN,NATO,EU,IMF are western initiatives, from which most (by far) aid programmes sprung and which has led to numerous military interventions for the good of man. It is the west that has united the world through efforts of globalisation at present but also through the colonisation of the past. Anyway you look at it, it is the west that has initiated our future path of unity.

It was western technology that built Japan in the beginning of the industrial revolution, it was the German war machine that gave them the edge after the 2nd world war, it was the Russian war machine that gave China it's boost and it's western trade that's keeping it up, the east would be nothing more than the denotation of some local market somewhere in the world if it wasn't for western interest.

War hungry ?! 500 million people have been living with highest standards in the world for over 50 years without 1 internal disturbance. Not China, not Japan, not Korea, not any country, let alone a group of countries of this magnitude comes close to this performance, period. It has been the west that has been deploying it's soldiers all over the world to intervene in idiot struggles of religious and cultural trivialities, borders that were not long enough, religions that were not good enough, you name it and western soldiers died over it. I really do not want to hear this kind of generalization about how western people are "war hungry" because we happen to have businesses that sell arms to countries that kill over peanuts, welcome to the free market economy that has made it possible for the east to thrive in the first place.

Please be fair in this, there are a dozens wars at any giving time, the west is involved in most of these as NEGIOTIATORS, not as perpetrators. The next time the west as such is involved in a war it will be world war III.

‘cultural backwardness’ .. ermm … so people are culturally backward because they don’t live up to western ideals?
Why should nations aspire to western ideals? These nations are not in the West so why should they conform to what we think is the right way to live? Who are we to impose our way of life on anyone? Like the west is perfect … yeah right!
Those nations who regard themselves as the world police should first take a look in their own back yard and clean up their own shit before rushing into someone eles’es country with the classy western ideals

I am not talking about trivial western customs, who cares if someone shakes a hand or not, it's not about that.
It's about giving others the freedom to choose their own destiny, whether it is a girl who get's stoned because she falls in love with someone outside her clan/tribe/religion or a citizen who is forced to accept submission to a non-democratic government.
Certain things are not important and certain things are not acceptable, we obviously disagree on whether that line exists and probably also on what belongs on what side of the line but the least you have to acknowledge is the declaration of human rights and with that probably also the manifest of the UN.

It's not about bossing people who live well, it's about bossing people who transgress the rights of others.

Of course that's the moral side, but then there's is the matter of self-interest . Plainly put, the instability in one country may disturb the stability of an entire region and with that world wide trade may be affected, surely we agree on that being one of the prime selectors for intervening in conflicts and it is the prime motivator for the interest we show in certain regions of the world.
This doesn't exclude what I said earlier, the west is involved in many conflicts, many of which do not have direct ulterior motives.

[boca]

Very eloquent Bram. Historical perspective seems to always be in short supply. Keep shining light unto the darkness.