China unveils weapon developments

[Rubber Duck]

A video produced to celebrate the recent achievements of the China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) reveals a wealth of evidence for new Chinese weapons programmes and the pace of weapons systems development by the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).

The official footage, which has now appeared on the internet, shows an entirely new class of air-to-surface missiles, airborne launch trials of the Kh-31 high-speed anti-radiation missile (ARM) and the PL-12 active radar beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM), heavy air-to-surface loads for the Chengdu J-10 and Shenyang J-11B fighters, plus extensive test and development activity with virtually every front-line combat aircraft in Chinese service.

Most intriguing is a new missile design believed to be designated KD-88. A few blurred images of a weapon labelled KD-88 have been seen prior to this but the CFTE film shows two distinct versions being trialled by Xian JH-7A attack aircraft. The missile is roughly 3.5 m long and powered by a small turbojet/turbofan engine with an underslung intake. Two different seeker types are fitted — one appears to be electro-optical (EO, potentially an imaging infrared seeker) while the other is either an active radar seeker or a passive RF-homing seeker for the defence suppression mission.

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© 2007 Jane's Information Group
[End of non-subscriber extract]

http://www.janes.com/security/intern...0514_1_n.shtml

Looks like the West and America in particular are going to be facing stiff competition in Arms exports soon as well.

[Drewbert]

Ahh - a country where engineering graduates are not made fun of.

[Burnsinternet]

If you guys only knew the capabilities of the West. Remember that the F-117? Top notch tech! Circa 1983, only one ever shot down (lucky shot in Serbia), and it is being retired now. When did you actually see one? More than ten years after the first squadron was operational.

Now, imagine what we have that you don't know about. The Brits and the Yanks have incredible research facilities and resources. Don't count us out yet. We will always be able to defend our homelands.

And for all of those who say the West is in decline? You have no idea about what you don't know. Economically, maybe we'll have tough times. We are innovative and resilient. The Brits were a superpower for decade after decade after decade. Who could really take them on in this century? Very few countries. I daresay that Western powers will always be a force to be feared.

[mulligan]

The thing about the West is they are safe in the knowledge of their superiority. They display an arrogance that comes from periods of domination ... While they may seem like long periods they are actually not ... The Brits were a so called *empire* at one point in history ... There were few places on the planet where they didn't impose their way of life, values and culture .. Then things went wrong ... 'Johhny' native decided he didn't want to pay rent for land that his ancestors owned or pick cotton for his white master ...

They have a history of 'invading' places with their superior 'firepower' and then become complacent .... Look what happened when the partitioned India ... The same with the US .. a bunch of guys in tunnels in Vietnam kicked them back to where they belonged ... look what they and the Brits are doing to Iraq ... some solution that turned out to be ... and as for convincing the public they had WMD so they could justify it when in actual fact they didn't ... well, what can you say?

These are the guys ruling our countries when they should really be taken out the back and executed for the turmoil, death, misery and destruction they dole out on a daily basis from their castles in the sky...

If the West didn't try and force people to be something they're not and 'conform' to Western ideals then there wouldn't be so many people willing to kill them .. It a sad day when you can't go to Bali without thinking that a bomb might go off as you're having dinner because of some fuck head in Washington whispering sweet nothing bullshit to his puppet counterpart in Downing Street ...

Whats the solution? I don't know ...

And ... if the aim is make people fearful of you then inevitably that will lead to your demise .. People who are afraid will find a way to not be afraid

The 'big guns' can't 'sort out' a smallish country like Iraq? What are the chances they can 'sort out' China?

The days when the West has it all it's own way are numbered

[Rubber Duck]

But technology is all down to economy and finance.

The British are not a force to be reckoned with in any meaningful sense. Most of us don't even want to be. It just cost too much money and puts us in the front line where we don't want to be. Most of defence capability is dependant on making equipment sales to other nations. If the Chinese steal those markets from us by producing fighter aircraft and the like that are of a similar capability but a damned site cheaper, then our defence industries will either collapse or they will place such a strain on competitiveness as a nation, we are not going to be able afford them anyway. We are a medium sized country in a big World. Most of are now getting our head around the fact mutual peaceful coexistence is really the feasible option going forward. Britain will soon be dwarfed in terms of economic size by the BRIC nations.

The US is slightly different. The US will continue to a large economy and to some extent military power. The US has problems though, it already has the highest per capita spending on defence of any developed nation. That is already not enough. Your defence industries also need support from government and international sales. Defence and Aerospace have been areas where despite whatever else is going on in the rest of the economy, you have assumed you have an edge. Technology yes, you will have for sometime to come, if you can afford to keep everything you have in service, commercially it is clear you are going to face stiff competition from China, but also other places as well. If you lose your commercial edge, eventually R & D in other places will catch up and you will lose you technical edge as well.

Powerful nations educate their school children to be proud of their international dominance. It has taken Britain generations to adapt to its new reality post empire. It is likely that a similar situation will prevail in the US. During the cold war most Britain still thought the Royal Navy could take on the Russian Fleet single handedly. The Nelson legacy went very deep indeed.

Originally Posted by Burnsinternet

If you guys only knew the capabilities of the West. Remember that the F-117? Top notch tech! Circa 1983, only one ever shot down (lucky shot in Serbia), and it is being retired now. When did you actually see one? More than ten years after the first squadron was operational.

Now, imagine what we have that you don't know about. The Brits and the Yanks have incredible research facilities and resources. Don't count us out yet. We will always be able to defend our homelands.

And for all of those who say the West is in decline? You have no idea about what you don't know. Economically, maybe we'll have tough times. We are innovative and resilient. The Brits were a superpower for decade after decade after decade. Who could really take them on in this century? Very few countries. I daresay that Western powers will always be a force to be feared.

[Burnsinternet]

Mulligan - Point taken, but military power is a prerequisite for survival. The European & North American countries will be able to defend themselves. We will defend ourselves against any foe. No matter how strong.

RD - We do have vast resources, ourselves. China is huge, but we are not tiny. We have incredible intellectual and industrial resources that, in some ways, the Chinese cannot match for generations. That, our population, and our driving nationalism and pride will ensure that defense is our priority and that we can defend ourselves. In all seriousness, who could really take on Britain in a war?

Wait ten years and see what we have now.

[Drewbert]

>We will defend ourselves against any foe. No matter how strong.

Yeah. By completely destroying a country that had absolutely nothing to do with the people who first attacked you. Bush has worn down your military so badly you can't even respond to a tornado in Kansas. All you'll have left soon are nukes, and drafting citizens into an army with sandblasted equipment.

>We have incredible intellectual and industrial resources that, in some ways, the Chinese cannot
>match for generations.

Errr. You have an administration that pooh-pooh's science and puts religion ahead of it. You're engineering base is dwindling because they can make more money starring in TV reality shows. China's gonna be WAY ahead of you in 10 years.

The sooner you get your nationalism bigots off the TV's and start teaching your population what humbleness is, the better fo the entire planet.

[bramiozo]

Originally Posted by mulligan

The thing about the West is they are safe in the knowledge of their superiority. They display an arrogance that comes from periods of domination ... While they may seem like long periods they are actually not ... The Brits were a so called *empire* at one point in history ... There were few places on the planet where they didn't impose their way of life, values and culture .. Then things went wrong ... 'Johhny' native decided he didn't want to pay rent for land that his ancestors owned or pick cotton for his white master ...

They have a history of 'invading' places with their superior 'firepower' and then become complacent .... Look what happened when the partitioned India ... The same with the US .. a bunch of guys in tunnels in Vietnam kicked them back to where they belonged ... look what they and the Brits are doing to Iraq ... some solution that turned out to be ... and as for convincing the public they had WMD so they could justify it when in actual fact they didn't ... well, what can you say?

These are the guys ruling our countries when they should really be taken out the back and executed for the turmoil, death, misery and destruction they dole out on a daily basis from their castles in the sky...

If the West didn't try and force people to be something they're not and 'conform' to Western ideals then there wouldn't be so many people willing to kill them .. It a sad day when you can't go to Bali without thinking that a bomb might go off as you're having dinner because of some fuck head in Washington whispering sweet nothing bullshit to his puppet counterpart in Downing Street ...

Whats the solution? I don't know ...

And ... if the aim is make people fearful of you then inevitably that will lead to your demise .. People who are afraid will find a way to not be afraid

The 'big guns' can't 'sort out' a smallish country like Iraq? What are the chances they can 'sort out' China?

The days when the West has it all it's own way are numbered

The west isn't guilty for fucking up entire nations just because it drew borders decades ago, ethnic cleansing, genocide, dictatorships are a reality at present because there are "natives" who commit those crimes and atrocities not because the west provide them with arms or because the west had their ancestors 'pick cotton' over a century ago.

Moral decadence from the west is based on fact rather than fiction and instead or learning from it 3rd-world countries start thinking of "payback" because of injustices that took place generations ago, to what end ?!

Instead of wining about inproper decisions of the west people should think of all the good it produced in the past 50 years, the people it saved, the science it produced, the technology it developed and the peace it aspired.

What is a western ideal ? You mean the human rights act which many countries simply can not live up to because of cultural backwardness, you mean democracy which if understood at all is introduced with violence because the old forces can stand to lose power ? If all countries adhered to the basic western ideals they would still have their cultural heritage but with the best possible guarantee of stability and peace and a much higher standard of living, once the nationalists of theworld get that in their thick skulls we can move on to an new chapter.

[bramiozo]

Originally Posted by Drewbert

>We will defend ourselves against any foe. No matter how strong.

Yeah. By completely destroying a country that had absolutely nothing to do with the people who first attacked you. Bush has worn down your military so badly you can't even respond to a tornado in Kansas. All you'll have left soon are nukes, and drafting citizens into an army with sandblasted equipment.

>We have incredible intellectual and industrial resources that, in some ways, the Chinese cannot
>match for generations.

Errr. You have an administration that pooh-pooh's science and puts religion ahead of it. You're engineering base is dwindling because they can make more money starring in TV reality shows. China's gonna be WAY ahead of you in 10 years.

The sooner you get your nationalism bigots off the TV's and start teaching your population what humbleness is, the better fo the entire planet.

Chinese exchange students seem to do well and there are more and more collaborations with Chinese universities so yeah maybe they'll be on par in a short timeframe but "WAY" ahead ?

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by bramiozo

The west isn't guilty for fucking up entire nations just because it drew borders decades ago, ethnic cleansing, genocide, dictatorships are a reality at present because there are "natives" who commit those crimes and atrocities not because the west provide them with arms or because the west had their ancestors 'pick cotton' over a century ago.

Of course they are guilty … ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc are a result of the West drawing borders decades ago .. How come Indians were able to live in relative harmony until the Brits decided to divide the country into India and Pakistan .. You think the bloodbath that ensued was because of so called western democracy?
And have you forgotten that it is American weapons beign use in Afghanistan to send their sons and daughters home in boxes?

Originally Posted by bramiozo

Moral decadence from the west is based on fact rather than fiction and instead or learning from it 3rd-world countries start thinking of "payback" because of injustices that took place generations ago, to what end ?!

To no end, but if you oppress people and force them to live according to your rules they will get pissed and at some point they will seek revenge … A few generations is not a long time and if you think people will just forget and forgive then you are mistaken.

Originally Posted by bramiozo

Instead of wining about inproper decisions of the west people should think of all the good it produced in the past 50 years, the people it saved, the science it produced, the technology it developed and the peace it aspired.

The peace? What peace? The west are the most war hungry people on earth
The East is at least as capable of advances in science and technology

Originally Posted by bramiozo

What is a western ideal ? You mean the human rights act which many countries simply can not live up to because of cultural backwardness, you mean democracy which if understood at all is introduced with violence because the old forces can stand to lose power ? If all countries adhered to the basic western ideals they would still have their cultural heritage but with the best possible guarantee of stability and peace and a much higher standard of living, once the nationalists of theworld get that in their thick skulls we can move on to an new chapter.

‘cultural backwardness’ .. ermm … so people are culturally backward because they don’t live up to western ideals?
Why should nations aspire to western ideals? These nations are not in the West so why should they conform to what we think is the right way to live? Who are we to impose our way of life on anyone? Like the west is perfect … yeah right!
Those nations who regard themselves as the world police should first take a look in their own back yard and clean up their own shit before rushing into someone eles’es country with the classy western ideals